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LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts     TX, USA
5266 Posts
Many of you are asking about this diet. We have it on a meetup.com URL in PDF form:
http://files.meetup.com/768852/LGRS_SuggieSoup.pdf
If you have trouble getting to that, here is the full text of the document (below right here):
Here also on sugarglider.com is the nutritional analysis link:
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=36
Now we can just bookmark this post and it will be easier....
LGRS Suggie Soup Recipe (2.12:1 Ca:Ph Ratio)
Introduction
The LGRS Suggie Soup is an economical, lower-fat, lower cholesterol, higher calcium, higher protein recipe than similar recipes that use expensive, imported ingredients. This is the standard recipe for all rescues and animals being rehabilitated at Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary. You can dilute the finished product with water and syringe feed it to gliders who are suffering from metabolic bone disease or hind leg paralysis. It is important to first take malnourished gliders to the vet as they are often candidates for a subcutaneous calcium injection and other treatments.
Batches and Freezing
One "batch" of this recipe will produce about 7 cups. With a two tablespoon serving per glider per day, a batch would last a pair gliders two months, depending on waste. You need to keep the bulk of your batch frozen and only transfer amounts needed for a few days at a time into the refrigerator. Please note that as a rescue we err on the side of over-feeding especially when nursing malnourished rescues back to health You may be able to cut back the portions to a tablespoon and a half if the glider is generally healthy. You can water the formula down if they are getting fat. A full grown adult male should be about 150 grams. Gliders that get out of their cage every night and exercise for a few hours usually don't get fat.
DISCLAIMER:
— Show this recipe to your veterinarian.
— Let your veterinarian decide if its contents are good for your pet.
— LGRS Suggie Soup is only one part of an overall diet plan.
— See the compote section to learn more on foods to feed with the soup.
Veterinarians: a comprehensive nutritional analysis of LGRS Suggie Soup is
published on http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=36
Ingredients
1 cup of canned Mango juice or liquefied fresh Mango
1 cup of canned Papaya juice or liquefied fresh Papaya
2 cups of Calcium & Vitamin D fortified Orange Juice
2 cups of Filtered Honey (see footnote 1)
1/4 cup of Plain, Low-Fat Yogurt (kind with 12g protein per half pint)
1 small scrambled egg
1 Tablespoon of Trader Darwin's Vanilla Flavored Soy (see footnote 2)
1 Tablespoon of powdered, Dehydrated Fly Pupae (see footnote 3)
2 Tablespoons of powdered Bee Pollen (see footnote 4)
Preparation
1. Cook and scramble egg, set aside to cool
2. With a blender, powder the bee pollen and dehydrated fly pupae together so it is one fine powder and set aside
3. Warm honey using a hot water bath method or microwave.
4. Mix warmed honey and juices in blender
5. Add protein powder and yogurt to the juice and honey mixture. Blend till smooth [depending on the size of your blender. You may need to blend the rest in stages]
6. Add egg and pollen/pupae mix into the liquid ingredients. Blend until smooth.
7. Pour into small freezer-safe containers for freezing use containers that you can put in the fridge with enough to last two or three days. If you have two gliders who will only eat two tablespoons per serving, those containers can be pretty small. You can freeze the soup in ice cube trays and pop the frozen cubes into freezer bags.
RECIPE FOOTNOTES
1. Do not use raw, comb, or unfiltered honey. Look for the world “filtered” or “pasteurized” on the label.
2. A nutritional analysis of Trader Darwin’s Vanilla Flavored Soy is on this web page: www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/food.asp?ndbid=999989
If you cannot get this item in your area, other vitamin fortified soy isolate products will work, but compare them and try to come close to this nutritional profile. A suitable substitute for Trader Darwins is Arnold’s Choice Possum Milk Replacer. You can find Arnold’s choice here: www.sugar-gliders.com/possum-milk-replacer.htm.
A third choice is Designer Whey: www.designerwhey.com
3. Make sure they are DEHYDRATED. Get the Pupae *not* the Larvae. Dehydrated fly pupae is available from Oregon Feeder Insects Inc. 866.641.8938 www.OregonFeederInsects.com
If you cannot get this you can substitute dried crickets.
4. Bee pollen is available on line at www.BulkFoods.com
You can also buy it at local “Whole Foods Market” or GNC nutrition stores.
A Word on Fruit and Veggie and Meat Compotes
You should also offer a compote of properly balanced Fruits, Veggies and Meat on the side of the soup. Offer two tablespoons per glider. Watch out for high Ph contents of meats. Must offset so overall Ca:Ph ratio is 2:1
For compote examples see:
www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/publicrecipes.asp
Properly balanced compote recipes on the site include:
- CornPapayaExample (LuckyGlider)
- Eric's Example recipe (Eric Coleman)
There are also some cool smoothies from Dahlia up there too
Another Disclaimer:
There will be other recipes on the public recipes page at sugarglider.com. Just being there does not make them automatically correct. You have to check. Inside of each recipe's nutritional analysis, be sure to scroll down and ensure there is twice as much calcium as there is phosphorus. That's the general rule of thumb. Dark green vegetables have good calcium, but it is cancelled out by the oxalates, so don't use dark green veggies for their Ca content.
Misleading Ratio Warning
Many dark, green leafy vegetables such as spinach and turnip greens tout high amounts of Ca and a favorable Ca:Ph ratio. This is misleading. Dark, green leafy vegetables are usually high in oxalates. This substance is known to bind to, and prevent the digestion of Calcium in the host plant. This means despite the “high” Calcium content, between 90 and 100 percent of it will not be available to metabolize.
Results
Here at Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary, we have been using variations of this basic recipe since 2007. Early in 2007 we fed the HPW diet but later made adjustments accounting for our desire to improve the calcium ratio and to reduce the cholesterol from the eggs. The “before and after” photos below show how well gliders respond to a high protein diet such as HPW or LGRS. The example of Dottie on the top shows the favorable “before and after” results of using HPW (We are saying we were happy with the results of HPW 2 years ago). The before and after shots of Toolah and Picachu are examples of favorable results using LGRS suggie soup.
Here is a link to before and after photos:
www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/Photos/3262/BeforeAndAfterDiet.jpg
Hannah2010 Glider 177 Posts Ed, one quick questiong, would it be ok for me to substitute the Trader Darwin's Soy with Suncoast's Possum milk Replacer? http://www.sugar-gliders.com/possum-milk-replacer.htm
Here is a link to all the information regarding the product, it seems like it would be an easy switch, but I don't want to make that decision on my own. The only reason I ask is because I already have it on hand. Thanks in advance, Hannah LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts TX, USA 5266 Posts quote:
Originally posted by Hannah2010
Ed, one quick questiong, would it be ok for me to substitute the Trader Darwin's Soy with Suncoast's Possum milk Replacer?
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/possum-milk-replacer.htm
Here is a link to all the information regarding the product, it seems like it would be an easy switch, but I don't want to make that decision on my own. The only reason I ask is because I already have it on hand.
Thanks in advance,
Hannah
Hannah, yes you can. Here are some comments on this idea: 1. Whey-based proteins with low levels of trace vitamins are minerals are generally OK. As with the Womberoo brand milk replacer, the Suncoast "Arnold's Choice" is not a soy isolate, but a milk whey-based protein powder based on their claims. That is fundamentally safe. Unlike the Womberoo brand milk replacer, the suncoast product has no iron like the Trader Darwin's does. You can get the iron up to recipe levels by adding another half tablespoon of fly pupae or you can just leave it be. Also the Suncoast "Arnold's Choice" whey protein product has a little added Vit E in it which is a good trace vitamin to have in their diet. Trader Darwin's Vanilla Flavored Soy is the source of that vitamin in the LGRS soup, so since the Suncoast milk replacer has that, it looks like a pretty good stand-in. 2. Cost Considerations I would also recommend looking at the labels of soy isolate and milk whey products at the healthfood store to see if you can find ingredients close to the Trader Darwins. I mention this because of the cost associated with these products. You can get two whole pounds of the Trader Darwins for $12 so that's an economical consideration we should all ponder. The Suncoast powder is $18 including shipping for just shy of a pound, so it is about 3 times as expensive as the Trader Darwin's powder. 3. Balance of Protein Sources in LGRS soup Whey-based protein powders are arguably "better" than soy isolates (controversy over materials used in extracting the protein from soy [whey liquid] vs. milk whey), but this recipe as you can see does not call for a lot of it. In fact, if you look at the nutritional analysis of the LGRS soup, only 25% of the protein is derived from the powder. As you can guess, we use the powder for some of the other ingredients besides the protein. In fact, if you check closely, every single ingredient of the LGRS soup contributes some amount of protein. The fly pupae is very good contributor of protein because it is a low-fat protein source. 0ff the beaten path but kind of fun OK, this is a little off the beaten path but for those of you who are looking for a safe, natural, home-based way to derive pure protein from soy, here's how it is done. This is a "natural soy isolate" based on soy whey, you can prepare bean curd yourself with no nasty acids or horror story chemicals: 1. Use a stock pot to cover a pound of cleaned, dry soy beans. Cover and let soak for a day in the refrigerator. 2. Put stock pot on stove and slowly warm the water to a very low simmer. Never let it boil. You should see little tiny bubbles coming up to the top of the water. You do not want a lot of foam. Again, do not let it come to a boil, because if you do and it gets a mountain of foam on the top, you've ruined it. 3. After the beans have been at a low simmer for a good hour but not boiling and the water is still hot to the touch, turn off the gas and let the pot cool to a warm but not burning to the touch temperature. At this point you can use a potato masher and gently mash the beans a little to break them up and then stir the water a little to get it "milky" 4. Get a bottle of lemon concentrate or lemon juice. Now very carefully use a serving spoon to slowly introduce the lemon juice from the top of the water allow it to drop down slowly, adding enough to see the soy whey start to curdle into light, airy lumps. (you can also suspend epsom salts in water and use that but I always liked the idea of lemon concentrate). 5. Once formed, capture the curds with a wire strainer or similar tool 6. Line a large, round plastic margarine tub with triple-layered cheese cloth and dump the curd in. Twist the curd shut in the cheese cloth and tie off the loose ends with a rubber band so you have a big meatball-sized hunk of curd captured inside the cheese cloth ball. 7. Get another plastic margarine container but with this one poke holes in the bottom. Fill your sink with cold water, being careful to stop the drain. put the curd ball in the tub with holes in it. Put the other tub on top of that and put the whole thing under the cold water. Hold the bottom of the holed tub with one hand and make a fist with the other to press the curd ball flat between the two margarine tubs. Don't pulverize it, just flatten it a little so it is not a round ball anymore. The more you compress the curd at this point, the harder it will be when it sets. Wrap a rubber band around the tubs so it does not come apart so the curd sets at the size you have pressed it to. 8. Put cold water in a small pot and drop the tubs in there so the whole thing is covered by water. 9. Stick that in the fridge overnight 10. In the morning take it out and unwrap the cheese cloth. The result is a lump of fresh bean curd, the natural, safe way. This is how I did it back in the 70's when I was a vegetarian and we bought the beans at a food co-op and did everything on the cheap. This is what you show people when they say you can't use soy isolates because they are "dangerous." If you isolate the protein yourself, there is no controversy.  I know I am really dating myself here, but this recipe is a hoot and it proves you can use the word "whey" along with soy isolates so no one will be correcting you about how you can only use the word "whey" with milk-based products.  nurseotter Glider TX, USA 85 Posts Okay this may sound stupid, but the analysis above for the soy protein is considered "one" serving on the carton right? So if I compare it to another protein powder, I can compare it serving to serving? And thank you soooooo very much for this and all the hard work you have done and are continuing to do! Audra Hannah2010 Glider 177 Posts Thanks Ed; I just want to use this box of "arnolds choice" up and then I will try and locate some trader darwins. Sense i'm only feeding one right now (soon to be two) it should last a while. I may revert to the 70s method after I use all this milk replacer. It sounds like a fun economical/natural way to go. Considering I live in ohio, i'm litterally surrounded by soy bean feilds, I could even go pick it!!!!  How COOL..... Hmmmm. I wonder if he will appreciate it more if I go pick the beans and then slave over the stove and go through all that work to get some natural "whey protein"..... Probably NOT!!! 
Hannah2010 Glider 177 Posts quote:
A Word on Fruit and Veggie and Meat Compotes
You should also offer a compote of properly balanced Fruits, Veggies and Meat on the side of the soup. Offer two tablespoons per glider. Watch out for high Ph contents of meats. Must offset so overall Ca:Ph ratio is 2:1
Ed: one last question: Does this mean one glider gets additional fruits, veggies, and meats that equals two tablespoons? And one glider would get one or two table spoons of the soup? I just want to make sure I get the quantities correct, I don't want to over or under feed. Thanks Again for all your help, I just ordered the pupae LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts TX, USA 5266 Posts quote:
Originally posted by Hannah2010
quote:
A Word on Fruit and Veggie and Meat Compotes
You should also offer a compote of properly balanced Fruits, Veggies and Meat on the side of the soup. Offer two tablespoons per glider. Watch out for high Ph contents of meats. Must offset so overall Ca:Ph ratio is 2:1
Ed: one last question:
Does this mean one glider gets additional fruits, veggies, and meats that equals two tablespoons?
And one glider would get one or two table spoons of the soup?
I just want to make sure I get the quantities correct, I don't want to over or under feed.
Thanks Again for all your help, I just ordered the pupae
Dear Hannah2010 ask as many questions as you want :-) Sometimes i do not respond right away, so if you need to ask quick you can always email me on ed@luckyglider.org on call us on our toll free number: 877-504-5145 To answer your question.... We recommend offering two tablespoons of of the soup to each glider each night. We recommend ALSO offering two tablespoons of a balanced "compote' of fruits/veggies/protein. OK, so that's 4 tablespoons of food for each glider. Is that too much? Well, it could be depending on the size of your glider and it could be depending on the amount of out-of-cage exercise they get. Since we run a rescue and so many gliders come in malnourished, we do admittedly have a tendency to over-feed and of course there is waste because of this. But gliders will not eat till they "pop" like a dog. If you think your glider is getting fat there are two things you can do: 1. Get it out of the cage more for running around and playing. Our pets for example get turns in our master bathroom for the WHOLE NIGHT. It is rigged like a playground. NONE of them are fat. 2. Feed less. Hope this helps. On average hos much would this recipe cost? LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts TX, USA 5266 Posts one batch is approx. $7.90 as follows: mango = $0.45 papaya = $0.50 orange juice = $0.25 honey = $2.00 yogurt = $0.50 egg = $0.25 Trader Darwin's = $0.20 Dehydrated Fly Pupae = $2.75 Bee Pollen = $1.00 Ed, every time I see all this data, I am amazed. You are such a terrific source of wonderful information...Thanks so much as always. LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts TX, USA 5266 Posts quote:
Originally posted by shadow
i noticed that you used canned fruit. i have been told to stay away from canned stuff. is there a better brand of canned fruit for gliders? or could you tell me what brand you use? thanks for all the info. my boys are on the 25/25/50 diet right now. my boys are so picky im afaid they wont like this diet. have you ever had a glider not like it?
By canned fruit I am guessing you mean the fruit juices. To be more clear, canned juice is kind of a generic term that refers to any fruit juices that are either concentrate or full serving but packaged in a can, a cardboard box, or a plastic jug. So, like the square "Milk Container"-like cardboard boxes that orange juice comes in is a "canned" fruit juice. The term canned often means that some kind of homogination or filtering or refrigeration process has taken place. At any rate, the only thing wrong with some "canned" foods is they often have a tendency to add preservatives, sodium or syrup. This is usually not the case with the ones I am mentioning for this recipe. Also, as it says, you can liquify the mango and papaya yourself if you don't want to get it canned. You can also get both of those frozen and that is safe too. Ditto the orange if you want to juice it yourself but then you'd have to add calcium carbonate with D3 on your own... because we stipulate the Ca/D3-fortified orange juice so you don't overdose by mistake with repcal. To answer your other question about pickiness.... We feed 75 rescues and 16 pets on this formula each night. Out of all of them, maybe one or two only lick a little of it up. Most like it. If you try it, maybe they will shun it the first night, but it does not take long for most to fall in love with it. Keep in mind this is just a well-balanced and safe soup. You should feed them balanced fruits and veggies on the side. I was wondering if you could list where you get your Trader Darwin's Vanilla Flavored Soy and Bee pollen. Also what can Fly Pupae be substituted for?
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